[MELISSA]
All plants are ugly (Say more!)

[OLIVIA]
Avocado toast isn’t green (Say more!)

[MELISSA]
Mosquitos are doing a good job (Say more!)

[OLIVIA]
I would sleep with Hobo Johnson (pause)
I would

[MELISSA]
Hello?

[OLIVIA]
Hi Melissa

[MELISSA]
Oh, it’s so weird to see you in this closet

[OLIVIA]
We’re in a closet

[MELISSA]
We’re in a closet
[OLIVIA]
Not sexually

[MELISSA]
Not sexually yet

[OLIVIA]
Though who knows how things could change
Can you go back in- you can go back in the closet.

[MELISSA]
Yeah

[OLIVIA]
Sexually

[MELISSA]
Right. Emotionally.

[OLIVIA]
Yeah. We’re in my pantry right now because though you guys might think that we y’know are famous and rich and have access to yachts and different kinds of --

[MELISSA]
It’s just a pantry

[OLIVIA]
We’re humble gals and so we are recording our podcast in a pantry
[MELISSA]
Not only do we live in the panty, but we love in the pantry

[OLIVIA]
We make love -- (giggles)
We make love next to canned beans and rice

[MELISSA]
And things that -- what is this?
What am I looking at?

[OLIVIA]
Um, that is a fan and a bookshelf

[MELISSA]
A fan (both laugh)
Oh my god, a fan

[OLIVIA]
Oh my god it’s a fan

[MELISSA]
So weird okay, this is so embarrassing
This always happens

[OLIVIA]
I just always get spotted everywhere I go
Did you want my autograph-- oh, oh you were wondering if I work here? No I don’t, I don’t work here
[MELISSA]
No, I don’t work here
I don’t work at the Forever 21, young teen girl

[OLIVIA]
How was your day today?

[MELISSA]
My day was good. I just came in from New York
I sat next to a woman who immediately started taking off her shoes

[OLIVIA]
I can't -- okay when you texted me that -- Melissa texted me and said that a woman next to her was taking off her shoes but I wasn’t sure what the -- what was the problem?
Am I nasty for not understanding what the problem was there?

[MELISSA]
The problem was I thought I was going to be alone… I thought I had snabbed -- is that a word? -- snagged

[OLIVIA]
Snagged.

[MELISSA]
I thought I had snab-gad a window seat alone and I was going to listen to music and look out the window and like, feel something and this woman with a fanny pack is like “is anyone sitting here?” She probably sounded nicer than that but to me, she just sounded like a screeching, terrible person. Um, anyway, she also had boogers -- I didn’t mention that -- and she just sat next to me and just kept moving and taking off her fanny pack and taking things out of her fanny pack and then she started taking off her shoes and her shoes smelled and her feet smelled. I guess that was the problem. And so as soon as she went to the bathroom, I went to another seat.

[OLIVIA]
Understood, okay. My feet -- when I’m on planes they get extremely swollen (they laugh)
As you know, my feet are full of blood

[MELISSA]
Yeah they’re really -- chunky

[OLIVIA]
They’re chunky and they drastically change in size based on the heat and how high in the air I am so on a plane it’s deeply necessary to take my shoes off otherwise they will literally burst at the seams

[MELISSA]
Yeah

[OLIVIA]
So when you texted me that I was like, “Am I that person?” (they laugh)
And I think I am

[MELISSA]
You might be
Maybe she really-- maybe her feet were also swollen

[OLIVIA]
Maybe she’s pregnant and her feet are swollen

[MELISSA]
(sighs) Ugh I just couldn’t

[OLIVIA]
Maybe you’re a bitch

[MELISSA]
I am (she laughs)
Yeah maybe I’m just a fucking bitch

[OLIVIA]
You’re just a high maintenance bitch on the Megabus trying to have five star service

[MELISSA]
Listen, it was a GoBus

[OLIVIA]
What’s a GoBus?

[MELISSA]
It’s a MegaBus but with anonymity I guess

[OLIVIA]
Melissa hates MegaBus
She’ll go for any off-brand that’s a little edgier than a MegaBus

[MELISSA]
(she laughs) The MegaBus fucking sucks it takes like an hour to get out of Manhattan because it’s double decker for no -- it’s like double decker as a-- because it’s cute
There’s no reason for it to be double decker

[OLIVIA]
But isn’t the top floor so fun

[MELISSA]
I -- maybe

[OLIVIA]
And if you sit at the very front it feels like you’re on the Titanic

[MELISSA]
You have to pay an extra $5
One time I did that and then all these like drunk -- I was sitting next to all these drunk dudes who were like “I can’t believe I’m in fucking Times Square” and it was terrible
Anyway, MegaBus can’t go through the West Side Highway and because of that it takes a lot longer. Every other bus does because they don’t have to be a double decker. Whatever

[OLIVIA]
So it’s more expensive and less convenient

[MELISSA]
Yes. Exactly.

[OLIVIA]
That’s a really logical reason

[MELISSA]
Thank you, I’m a VirGO

[Olivia]
So this podcast is called Say More… Should we tell the folks why we decided to name it Say More?

[MELISSA]
Sure. Um, well I guess whenever one of us saying something on the edges of being problematic or just a vague thought that might be blasphemous -- being angry about a woman taking off her shoes -- we’re like ‘uh hmm say more’

[OLIVIA]
It’s our kind of way of like approaching conversations with each other that isn’t judgemental, I think, that, like, doesn’t offer up an immediate opinion and I feel like that encourages the person to say-- literally just say more
So we were thinking about what to call this podcast and we were like ‘what’s something we say to each other when encouraging conversation?’ and we say ‘say more’

[MELISSA]
Say more

[OLIVIA]
Often those opinions are maybe-- maybe “blasphemous” is the better word ‘cause I’ll be like ‘okay so, um I would fuck Hobo Johnson’

[MELISSA]
And I’ll be like ‘okay, say more’

[OLIVIA]
And instead of being like ‘you’re fucking disgusting for saying that’ Melissa will just say ‘say more’ and I can make my argument

[MELISSA]
Right and then you can make your opinion and I don’t form your opinion by being like gross or being like ‘uh me too’

[OLIVIA]
But also you too, you would fuck Hobo Johnson

[MELISSA]
Oh yeah in like, half of a second

[OLIVIA]
Can we all just be honest and say that we’d all fuck Hobo Johnson?

[MELISSA]
Yeah, can we all be honest and say Hobo Johnson is talented

[OLIVIA]
Can we all just be honest and say that, like, there is something Hobo Johnson is doing that is (Right!) that’s right
And fun
Yeah, I -- like I would never put his music on a playlist to listen to (publically) publically
That’s when you go into the private session to listen to it on Spotify

[MELISSA]
Would I listen to it while I’m making love?

[OLIVIA]
To him?
Yeah, um, I’m about it. I think I would go see him in concert

[MELISSA]
I would, too. And maybe not even for like, the story or ironically

[OLIVIA]
Mmhm
Yeah, no I would just go

[MELISSA]
Yeah. Get a shirt

[OLIVIA]
A Hobo Johnson shirt?

[MELISSA]
Uhuh. I’d have him sign it

[OLIVIA]
Honestly we-- I hope he hears this

[MELISSA]
Hobo Johnson if you’re listening, say more to us

[OLIVIA]
Say more to my vagina

[OLIVIA]
So the point of this podcast is we’re gonna interview each other about seemingly mundane topics (mhm)
This is the other thing Melissa and I have a habit of doing, we think too hard about everything (Yeah) and so we decided to choose topics that the other one-- that we know the other one thinks too hard about (mmhm) and give them a chance to think too hard about it publically

[MELISSA]
Yeah, and what better way to do that than with people listening

[OLIVIA]
Y’know because we don’t believe in (ourselves) privacy

[MELISSA]
Yeah, I don’t believe in privacy I don’t understand having secrets

[OLIVIA]
I love doing things knowing other people are watching.

[MELISSA]
Oh, I love it

[OLIVIA]
That’s why dating is fun.

[MELISSA]
That’s why dating with the internet is fun (mmhm) ‘cause you’re like --

[OLIVIA]
Here’s this Instagram story that’s for all these people but it’s really for you

[MELISSA]
Yeah, it’s really for you (mhm)

[OLIVIA]
Should we get started?

[MELISSA]
Let’s do it
Okay so *ahem* Olivia Gatwood

[OLIVIA]
Yes.
What’s the topic you’re interviewing me about?

[MELISSA]
I’m interviewing you about YouTube beauty gurus

[OLIVIA]
Wonderful.

[MELISSA]
So, um, please uh, say more on -- when was the -- do you remember the first beauty guru that you watched? Or like --

[OLIVIA]
I do, uh-- this girl that I follow
This girl that I went to middle school with was the pretty girl in middle school
Um, like the epitome like she had dimples and she had beautiful hair and she had a mom that like bought her nice clothing and she had, like, a cool house and was really friendly and happy and, like, boys liked her and girls liked her and she played every sport, and volunteered and was like, the epitome of, like, that girl

[MELISSA]
What a bitch

[OLIVIA]
*laughs* Bitch... Probably listening. *they laugh*
I know you follow me on the internet, uh, okay, um
So anyway, I continue to follow her on the internet ‘cause who doesn’t want to keep up with these folks hoping that they have a meltdown and end up shaving their head and that’s what I’m staying tuned for
She didn’t have a meltdown, still beautiful, still wonderful
But she posted one day when I was like -- in like 2012 when I was 20 and I had just moved to New York City um, and there was, like, four months before I -- went to New York for school -- and it was four months before school started so I spent a lot of time at home because I was really intimidated by New York.

[MELISSA]
Right.

[Olivia]
And I didn’t have any friends there yet and I didn’t know what to do yet
And so I was like I didn’t -- I remember I didn’t have internet in my apartment yet and so I spent a lot of time like going to the library, checking out books, taking the books home, and reading. And once I like, kind of read everything I felt like I could possibly read I needed to, like, have a different thing to fucking do to waste my time and I saw that she posted a beauty tutorial by someone else, like shared it -- “I loved this tutorial!”
Um and it was like how-- it was like a spring DIY headband video
Like -- what is a spring headband? I’m not sure (they laugh)
But it was that and I clicked on it having never seen it before and it was this girl named Ingrid Nielson um, who, at the time, her YouTube name was MsGlamorazi

[MELISSA]
Good

[OLIVIA]
She’s since changed it, she has also come out and is super fucking gay now

[MELISSA]
Hell yeah

[OLIVIA]
Love that
And I watched it and then I went down the fucking hole (mhm) and I never made the headband-- which we can talk about -- like, whether you actually do the tutorials

[MELISSA]
Right

[OLIVIA]
Which I think is another conversation to have

[MELISSA]
Like the process -- like watching a process

[OLIVIA]
Yeah, and I can talk about that
Um, but that was the first one I watched. And I don’t think -- out of the many hundreds of YouTube tutorials I’ve watched I’ve probably only done four of them (mmhm)
Because I feel like it’s not about learning, it’s well it’s a subtle learning. I’ve also simultaneously learned how to do my makeup from YouTube tutorials it’s like, one of those things like if the news is playing in the background even if you’re not listening you injest some of it (right) and you like remember certain things. You’re like ‘oh, I heard that that happened’
It’s like that, like I’ve just watched so many that I know how to contour even though I’ve never actually like followed one, I’ve just watched so many (right)
But mostly for me it’s very calming girl, like to me, nothing is more calming than watching a girl do a precise fucking cateye (mmhm)
It's like watching someone col-- do a coloring book like it's just like so satisfying and like

[MELISSA]
Yeah, for the longest time I like, couldn’t do a cateye. Still unsure if I can

[OLIVIA]
You’re getting better

[MELISSA]
Now I understand that it has to feel like the eyeliner is inside your eyeball. I thought I was putting it on right but really the eyeliner was like, like above my eyelid (mmhm) and it isn’t very ? and maybe now it's better.

[OLIVIA]
Is that because of YouTube tutorials?

[MELISSA]
Oh no, I’ve never really watched one. Like is there a certain time that you find yourself like binging YouTube tutorials?

[OLIVIA]
Yeah, so I don’t like binge as much anymore um meaning I can’t- I don’t really have the capacity for like, more than one anymore at a time but I love to watch them
So one thing I love about beauty tutorials is that they are solely mine
Like I don’t really watch them with other people and everyone I’ve dated it’s like obviously they’re not interested it (Right)
So I feel like it’s a thing I do by myself so I really like to watch them if I’m staying in for the night and I take a shower and get in bed.
Sometimes Beauty tutorials function as like my night tv (hm)
Like other people are like ‘I’m gonna get in bed and watch Netflix”
I don’t really watch TV or I’m not good at it and i don’t really watch movies casually so i want something like aimless and mindless

[Melissa]
That’s not scrolling

[Olivia]
No, that’s not scrolling I just watch YouTube tutorials

[Melissa]
Um, so a question kind of from the Twitter sphere was how, well actually I think you wanted to talk first you said something about like there being a secret girl’s club and how that related to YouTube tutorials

[Olivia]
Yeah so something that I like found that I love about YouTube tutorials besides the fact that it’s deeply calming to watch girls that have their shit together is that when I was growing up it was like a big deal for girls to not share their secrets
Like down to like if a girl had a pair of jeans you like you’d be like “where’d you get those jeans?” and she’d be like “I don’t remember”
Like let’s be real, we remember where we get all of our clothes. (Yeah) Like you literally- like EVERYTHING

[Melissa]
Let’s be real, I remember everything

[Olivia]
Right, you know exactly. You know if it was given to you, you know by who, like everything. You know how long you’ve had it. And so I remember when a girl would say “I don’t remember” it was like codeword for her saying “Bitch you’re gonna go buy these jeans if I tell you and I’m the only one who gets to have these fucking jeans.” (Woahhh) Um I remember my best friend in high school got threatened to get her ass beat because she had the same backpack as another girl (Shit) Yeah