Kavus: So right in the beginning, erm, in the trenches, I think it was in the second World War, and I think there was, there- a general feeling amongst the troops that ther- at this point, erm, they are going to be sent to their death, and a song of hope came by - I don't know who started it and I don’t think- it might have been based on some older piece, but it was 'have you seen Winst-t Churchill ascending, have you?, have you?, have you seen Winst-t-n Churchill ascending, have you?, have you?' and Winst-t Churchill, you know - Winston Churchill - was kind of, erm, very popular, еr, amongst the troops, and - or is that among the troops? - and that’s, er, you know, it was a song just about, if you'd seen him ascеnding, looking over them, guiding them, and showing them the principles of war for which, for which they must die, and so it was a song of kind of- it was a melancholy song, but it was a song about if you'd seen Winst-on, Winst- Churchill ascending, really. So, it became a song of melancholy in the trenches, and it also was to show that there was gonna be an ensuing battle and I think they knew that they were, might well die at this point, and, it was, it was just what the men sang beforehand, and it, it kinda got forgotten about for a long time, er, it went into sort of- I, I suppose, you know, it probably was a word of mouth thing, I dunno, er, I mean, but it was forgotten about for a while until then, in the '60s, there was a big change around, obviously, culturally, and, it- I suppose it was resurrected as something that- quaint, or o-of beauty, or, there, they- of course they put a new spin on it then, and for me, that was, that- that was cynical.